Dialexis Montanistae et orthodoxi

Dialogue of a Montanist and an Orthodox. The Montanist said: We, obeying the holy Paul, received Montanus as having the perfection of the Holy Spirit, that is, the Paraclete. For Paul himself said: "But when the perfect comes, the partial will be abolished"; and: "We know in part and we prophesy in part." The Orthodox said: Did the holy Paul speak truthfully or falsely? {M.} Truthfully. {O.} Then are the things of the apostle abolished? {M.} May it not be. {O.} How then did he say: "But when the perfect comes, the partial will be abolished," as one speaking truthfully or as one speaking falsely? {M.} He himself said: "We know in part and we prophesy in part." {O.} You speak truly, but you did not understand that every word in this age is a part of the mystery that will be revealed in the coming age. For now we believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and we have this in words; but then there will be knowledge, when we see face to face. Now we believe that the Lord himself will descend from heaven at a command, at the voice of an archangel, and at the trumpet of God; but then face to face. Therefore, when things are seen face to face, the partial will be abolished. For we no longer have faith from words, but from the sight itself, and this is what "the partial will be abolished" means. {M.} Then will faith also be abolished? {O.} It will be abolished, that is, it ceases. Let us recall the whole passage with the understanding of the Spirit. It says thus: "Love never falls; but prophecy, whether it be prophecy, will be abolished. For we know in part and we prophesy in part.

has come, the partial will be abolished. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I thought as a child; when I became a man, I abolished the things of the child. For we now see through a mirror in a riddle, but then face to face; now we know partially, but then I will know fully, just as I have been known. Do you see that it will be abolished for the better? What is this? When the things believed are present, faith will cease. For we no longer believe, but we see. But faith that is seen is not faith. For what one sees, what does he also believe? And this is it: we now see through a mirror in a riddle, but then face to face. Then, when? Clearly, when the end. {M.} Behold then, Montanus the Paraclete has come and given us the perfect. {O.} When the perfect comes, will the partial be abolished or not? {M.} Thus it is written. {O.} But we see that Montanus is abolished to this day; but the things of the holy Paul increase. {M.} And yet you abolish the things of Paul, who says that after Christ there are no prophets. {O.} You are mistaken, not knowing the scriptures nor what the church teaches. For we know that there are prophets even after Christ. For Jesus himself said: Behold, I will send to you prophets and wise men and scribes, and some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues. And Paul says: Seek the greater gifts, or rather, that you may prophesy. And again he says: If then the whole church comes together in one place and all speak in tongues, and laymen or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

If all should prophesy, and some unbeliever or layman should enter, he is refuted by all, examined by all, the secrets of his heart become manifest to all, and thus falling on his face he will worship God, declaring that God is truly among us. {M.} How then do you say that after Christ no prophet arose? {O.} We confess that prophets have arisen even after Christ, and that the apostles themselves also possessed the gift of prophecy. For how did Peter convict Ananias and Sapphira of embezzling from the price of the field, if he did not have the gift of prophecy? And how did the holy Paul speak of the things that would come to pass at the end of days, if he too did not have the gift of prophecy? {M.} Why then do you not accept Montanus the holy one? {O.} Because he was a false prophet, saying nothing true. {M.} Do not blaspheme, man, against the Paraclete. {O.} I praise and glorify the Paraclete, the Spirit of truth, but I abhor Montanus as the abomination of desolation. {M.} How so? {O.} First, because he says: "I am the Father, and I am the Son, and I am the Paraclete." {M.} But you say: "The Father is one, the Son is another, and the Holy Spirit is another." {O.} If we say so, it is not credible; but if the Son teaches that the Father is one and the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, is another, it is necessary to be persuaded. {M.} Show where he teaches this. {O.} When he says: "I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Paraclete, the Spirit of truth, that he may be with you forever, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him.

But you know that it remains with you and will be in you. How do you not clearly understand that, hearing one Paraclete, you conceive of another besides the one who speaks? {M.} If there is one and another and another, there are three gods. {O.} May it not be so. {M.} How: may it not be so? {O.} Because divine scripture unites things that have the same nature and will. {M.} May it not be so. {O.} You hear the apostle Paul saying that: In Christ Jesus there is neither slave nor free; there is neither male nor female; there is neither Greek nor Jew, but all are one in Christ Jesus. And we hear Christ himself saying concerning the man and the woman, that they are no longer two, but one flesh. If things that are in separation are no longer two because of the sameness of will and nature, how is it possible for incorporeal things to be subject to number and position? {M.} Then there is not one God. {O.} There is one God by reason of nature, but in hypostasis the father is one and the son is another and the holy spirit is another. {M.} How then does the son say: On that day they will know that I am in the father and the father is in me? And again he says: If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my father will keep him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him. He who does not love me does not keep my words, and my word is not mine, but belongs to the one who sent me. I have spoken these things to you while remaining with you; but the Paraclete, the holy spirit, whom the father will send in my name, that one will teach you everything and remind you of everything that I have said. {O.} Hearkening, you agree with the word of truth.

For if you are persuaded by what has been said, you will walk straight toward the truth. You have heard that he says: "On that day you will know that I am in the Father and the Father is in me," and he did not say: "On that day you will all know that I am Father and Son." And you hear that he says: "And we, I and the Father, will come to him"; he did not say to him: "I and the Father and the Son will come and make a dwelling." But also the saying: "My word is not mine, but belongs to the one who sent me" indicates nothing other than the particularity of the hypostases. And when you hear: "These things I have spoken to you while remaining among you, but the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all the things that I have told you," how will you not, blushing, confess the distinctness of the three hypostases? {M.} On the day of judgment the three hypostases sit to judge the living and the dead. {O.} Hearing "they sit" in a bodily sense, understand it spiritually, so that you do not suppose places and separations of bodies, but the steadfastness of nature. For the Father is everywhere, the Son is everywhere, the Holy Spirit is everywhere, and just as there is nothing between mind and word and breath, so there is nothing between Father and Son and Holy Spirit. And one must conceive the Father as perfect, in a perfect hypostasis, and the Son as perfect in a perfect hypostasis,

and the Holy Spirit, perfect in a perfect hypostasis, proceeding from the Father. {M.} How is that possible? He himself says: "I and the Father are one." {O.} He did not say: "I am one," but "we are one," so that we might know the hypostatic reality of the hypostases. But I am amazed that you recall the Gospels and yet do not walk straight toward their truth. {M.} I am persuaded by the Gospels. {O.} Show me then where it is written in the Gospels: "I am the Father and the Son and the Spirit." {M.} He who has seen me has seen the Father. {O.} But the Father—he did not claim to be the Father himself, but such as the Father. {M.} Do you wish to know that those who do not receive the Paraclete are orphans? Listen to the Lord saying: "It is better for you that I depart; if I do not depart, the Paraclete will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you; and when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment." And a little later he says: "I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you." Therefore those who have not received the Paraclete are orphans. {O.} Truly, not only are they orphans, but also godless, those who have not received the Paraclete. {M.} Why then do you not receive him? {O.} We have received and do receive him, but you have neither known nor received him, but have been deceived by Montanus, and such a deception as men would not have been deceived by unless they had become vessels of the devil. For first he persuades you to call the apostles orphans and the Lord Jesus a liar, who said to them: "I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you.

{M.} For we say that Christ was not in the apostles. {O.} He who says that the Paraclete was not in the apostles, but in Montanus, will certainly not grant that Christ was in them. For no one can say "Lord Jesus" except in the Holy Spirit. And according to you, the apostles were found orphans, and the Lord Jesus Christ a liar, and Montanus the priest of Apollo truthful. What is more wretched than this deception? {M.} We also say that the apostles had something from the Spirit, but they did not have the fullness of the Paraclete. {O.} And he who says, "We all with unveiled face behold the glory of the Lord," did he not have the Spirit, but Montanus the priest of the idol did? {M.} For was not Paul a persecutor? {O.} But he became a chosen vessel. {M.} And Montanus also. {O.} But from this the true prophet is known: by his speaking the things of God, and the false prophet by his speaking things contrary to God. {M.} And when did Montanus speak things contrary to God? {O.} When our God and Savior says that the Paraclete is other than himself and promises to send him to the apostles, but Montanus says, "I am the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," it is clear that he speaks contrary to the Son and is a false prophet. {M.} And we say that the apostles had the earnest of the Spirit, but not the fullness. {O.} That the apostles were temples of the Spirit, and all the saints, hear Paul saying: "Do you not know that your bodies are a temple of the Holy Spirit in you, and in others?

But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the spirit of God dwells in you. Since there are so many testimonies that say that the spirit was and is upon the believers, how can you say that it was not upon the apostles? {M.} I said that it was a pledge of the spirit in them. {O.} The spirit itself is the pledge of the promised goods, such as we have a promise of incorruption. Whence the proof that we will be incorrupt from the spirit, which he gave us, and thus we hope that every promise will be fulfilled from the presence of the Holy Spirit, so that it is the pledge of the promised goods? And Paul says thus: The God who confirms us together with you in Christ and anointed us, who also sealed us and gave the pledge of the spirit in our hearts, that is, that he was confirmed together with you in Christ. Whence this from the spirit, which he gave us? For the proof of what Christ promised is from the presence of the spirit: he promised the kingdom of heaven, he promised incorruption, immortality, wisdom, sanctification, redemption. What is the proof of this gift, and whence the certainty for us from the spirit, which he gave us? For he who gave the cause of the gifts will also give the consequences, and for this reason the spirit is called the pledge of the glory that will be revealed. {M.} Why then do you also reject the holy Maximilla and Priscilla and say that it is not permissible for women to prophesy? Did not Philip have four daughters who prophesied, and was not Deborah a prophetess? And does not the apostle say:

Every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered—if it is not permitted for women to prophesy or to pray? But if they pray, let them also prophesy. {Orthodox:} We do not reject the prophecies of women, and the holy Mary prophesied, saying, "From now on all generations will call me blessed." And as you yourself said, the holy Philip had daughters who prophesied, and Mary the sister of Aaron prophesied. But we do not permit them to speak in churches or to exercise authority over men, so that books are written in their name. For this is what it means for them to pray and prophesy with uncovered head, and not to shame the head, that is, the man. For could not the holy Mother of God Mary have written books in her own name? But she did not do so, lest she shame the head by exercising authority over men. {Montanist:} Is praying or prophesying with uncovered head the same as not writing books? {Orthodox:} Indeed it is. {Montanist:} Then if the holy Mary says, "From now on all generations will call me blessed," does she speak with boldness and uncovered, or not? {Orthodox:} She has the evangelist as a covering. For the Gospel is not recorded in her name. {Montanist:} Do not take allegories as dogmas. {Orthodox:} On the contrary, the holy Paul also used allegories to confirm dogmas, saying that Abraham had two wives, which are allegorized. For these are the two covenants. But let us grant that the covering of the head is not due to allegory.

Set down for me the allegory in all cases: if a woman is poor and does not have anything, what is she to cover herself with? Must she not pray or prophesy? {Montanist:} And can a woman be so poor as to have nothing to cover herself with? {Orthodox:} We have often seen women so poor that they have nothing to cover themselves with. But since you yourself do not wish that there be women so poor that they have nothing to cover themselves with, what do you do in the case of those being baptized? Then must they not pray while being baptized? And what do you say also in the case of men who often cover their head due to illness? Do you then prevent these from praying or prophesying? {Montanist:} At that hour when one prays or prophesies, she uncovers herself. {Orthodox:} Must he not pray continually, but rather disobey the apostle who teaches him, saying: Pray continually? And you advise the woman being baptized not to pray. {Montanist:} Is it for this reason, then, that you do not accept Priscilla and Maximilla, because they composed books? {Orthodox:} Not for this reason alone, but also because they became false prophetesses along with their leader Montanus. {Montanist:} How do you know that they became false prophetesses? {Orthodox:} Did they say the same things as Montanus? {Montanist:} Yes. {Orthodox:} Montanus was refuted as having spoken contrary to the divine scriptures, and therefore they also will be cast out along with him.